Joshua Keith Craft

0:53 I know I know it's been 40 minutes we've been sitting here chopping it up. just I'm just here to hang out with my friend, you know that. So, it's like that. If you happen to press record while we're hanging out, I'm good with it. Yeah, that's You know what? That's a good starting place because we just sat here for 40 minutes and talked about life and stuff before we even pressed record. Which uh is kind of what this podcast is about. It's just Yeah, man. Well, today I'm actually I'm super pumped actually to get into this. Cuz I I What I love is like you never tell me what you're going to say. And so, I'm always like I always feel like we have it's a genuine reaction and conversation. And you know, I was thinking about this today. You are now Josh, father of five nations cuz this guy That's like this guy in my in my Bible college, his name was Akim and he was from Zambia. And he had like he That's how he was introduced himself. My name was Akim, I'm father of five nations. And like I didn't know what he meant at first. And I was like, "Oh, you've had five kids?" Cuz like where he came from, your age, how many kids you were, and also how much weight you had on were like big like status symbols.

1:50 So, he hit the dude he hit the food hard. His goal was to gain as much weight as possible so people would think he was wealthy. He put on 24 lb in our in one year of our Bible college. Wow. Winning. Yeah, dude. Tell him that's not really how it works in the west. We Uh look, man. I just was going to let him do his thing. You know what I mean? Like our battles with our friends. I mean, it wasn't even picking a battle. I was like, "Get it, man." You know what I mean? Like if that's if that's uh I I knew he was going back to where he would not have that quite abundance of selection as we ate like chocolate cake and just stupid I mean, it was British food. So it was only so good. Anything I knew that would get you. Anything uh anything worth doing is worth overdoing, but yeah. I my my brother-in-law my my brother-in-law my wife's sister's husband, right? They have five kids, and so I've always called them McCraw Nation. Then I'm like, "I have five kids, so I'm kind of like Kraft Nation." Kraft Nation. Yeah. All right. So look, we we've we've we've been talk We talk about a lot of stuff on this podcast.

2:45 Like if you're a new listener and you're just kind of like, "What are we talking about?" We're talking about life. We're talking about everything. There's a lot of niche There's a lot of like niche world that like I live in and do like We're getting ready. We're probably going to switch gears at some point this year talk a lot about stewardship and money and stuff, but I like just having conversations about whatever's topical, whatever's going on. And uh I've been getting a lot of questions recently about manifesting and stuff like that. Me and you were kind of texting a little bit about that. I had a guy DM me on Instagram say, "Hey, would you Would you guys ever talk about this?" So here we are. But I don't know. I asked you about it, and then Yeah, but what I like about this, Josh, so like you you kind of gave the Josh version of the intro to the podcast. I'm going to give the I'm your friend, and I I think I have uh I'mma put my marketing spin on it a little bit. I think what you bring that's very unique and why I would say you should listen to to this podcast is because what you do so well is you take everyday topics that people wrestle with, and you blend in a really deep knowledge of ancient philosophy, history, and theology to give like godly answers for how to live today. And you would call that philosophy. Your philosophy is just basically the way you live your life and but you do a very good job of of showing the threads that have gone throughout human history and to like lead us to where we're at so that people can have a broader perspective on it. And I personally really enjoy it. I always tell you what my favorite my favorite preach of yours ever was and it involved it was when you did that masterfully. But but let's dive into this man cuz like so first of all, for those that don't know, what is manifesting? Because I'm you know, it can mean a lot of things.

4:19 Um well, I mean I think yeah, I mean I think we can start there but I I think um There's a There's like a central premise I think that we have to understand like about humanity. And and we're like I've I want to say this like on the podcast. I'm wrong a lot and a lot of times when we're having these conversations I'm talking off like the top of my head or with like a like a general like I'm a I'm a pretty big generalist when it comes to knowledge. Like I know a lot about I know a little bit about a lot of stuff. So, you know, usually an expert when they listen to me, an expert on a topic is like, "Ah, you got some of that wrong." Which I understand. So, um I don't know why I'm qualifying it but if I'm wrong then, you know, I reserve the right to change my mind. Which you say all the time, which is, you know, I got that from Earl Nightingale. So, Yeah. um So, there's a there's a there's a premise that I want to invite people to consider, okay? And the the premise is that human beings are created to worship things.

5:20 So, we're we're we have a strong pull towards worship of something, which um uh the the oldest like the oldest I I think this is one of the oldest impulses in uh humanity is this desire to this this uh idea of worshiping something. And And we've talked about worship before on the podcast, and the topic of this isn't just specifically about worship, but A.W. Tozer talks about this in The Pursuit of God. It's a great book. It's a really short book. good book. Yeah. But he talks about how um there's a there's basically uh a hum- a shrine that's inside our heart, right? And that shrine is a place that God created within us that's reserved for him.

6:15 And the problems in our life, and this is like the whole premise of this book, The Pursuit of God. The problems in our life arise when we when we remove God from this shrine, this altar, and we allow other things to enter. So, um so now by our nature, this is what Tozer talks about. Now Now by our nature, we don't have any peace. Right? Because God isn't crowned in our heart. So, the thing So, human beings I'll say it in the way I'm kind of Human beings are created to worship stuff. We have something within us that is an altar, that's a shrine that we pursue. Okay, so I'll practically define that for the sake of our conversation. We pursue things that we consider to be deeply meaningful. Yeah. Right? Human beings are Like this is this is the pursuit of purpose, the pursuit of meaning, the pursuit of identity. Right? So, we pursue things that we consider to be meaningful, and when we don't pursue God, we live a life without peace because we achieve or we accomplish or we attain whatever it is that's on the altar, on the shrine of our hearts, but um all those things are false false kings. Like they're false They're They're things that you know, people purs- They live their life. They pursue money. They worship money. They idolize money. It's all they think about, right?

7:39 So, if you want to know, you know, what what If you want to know what you worship, what do you spend most of your time considering? And the decisions that you make, uh what do you make those in service to? You know, Paul Peter Peter talked about that in the New Testament. He says, "We must you know, we we we must please God rather than rather than men." Which is like you know, Paul Peter's perspective was his driving force is how can I please God, right? Right. And so everyone everyone has a center, everyone has an altar, everyone has things that they're pursuing. The question is not whether or not we worship things, it's do we worship the right thing. Right. You know, so I think before we get into manifesting, it's just it's we have to kind of like land on that premise, right? Yeah, now what would you say for somebody that's like I think for if you're a Christian, and I I would imagine a lot of people listen to this are, it's like he's put eternity in man's heart, right? And yet no man can fathom what God's done from beginning to end the the beginning to end. It's Ecclesiastes 3:11.

8:43 So, like we do have a need for purpose. And I think a lot of people can see that, but like but do you think the need for purpose is tied to the the need to worship? Is that kind of what you're what you're pointing towards? Is that that's why people put things like money on the altar or power or whatever, insert whatever it may be, validation, because they they like they're trying to fill like an eternal longing? Yeah. I mean, the question of uh worship is what controls your life. Right, okay. Right? So, what do what do I believe controls my life? So, the pursuit of purpose, if I like man, I watched Disclosure Day the other night. I'm sorry. Oh, it's I loved it. I don't know why people didn't like it. I thought it was so amazing. People have slated that. I I have I don't know actually know anything about it. know. I'm just a movie guy, and I've loved Spielberg my whole life. But one of the characters in the movie is like, I don't They've lived their whole life like, I don't know my purpose. I don't know my purpose. I don't know my purpose. And they finally like in the movie realize their purpose, right?

9:43 Right. And um And so for a lot of people purpose controls their life, right? The the pursuit of meaning, the pursuit of purpose. Well, that that's not like the pursuit the pursuit of meaning and purpose is not ultimately about purpose and meaning itself. It's about God. Right. Right. It's about uh what controls what ultimately controls my life cuz um cuz that's what So, we think of something we think of a term like idolatry, right? And idolatry is this weird ancient behavior that other that like the ancient people practiced. Right. And we don't think that we're idolatrous anymore. Right. You know, we have we have secularism now and people don't really worship like the rain gods and you know, like like Baal, right? Uh Baal in the Bible. So, Baal's talked about a lot. Baal was the storm god. He was the god of rain and thunder and also the god of fertility. What's really interesting about the ancient world is pretty much every god's the god of fertility.

10:48 Right. Yeah, no kidding, man. Yeah, that's pretty important. So, so worshipping Baal was about uh weather. So, we don't we you know, uh Arthur C. Clarke, he said um any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Hm. And um so we we we discount spirituality a lot in today's world because we have a lot of technology and explanations for things. Like you go back if you if you take um uh if you take a weather forecast back to the ancient world and you say like here's here they'd be like, "Wow, you you talked to the gods." It's like, "No, we have developed a technology to interpret the weather patterns and we actually know where it's going to rain, right?" So, we don't we don't pray that God will make it rain now. We just look at the weather patterns, right? Right. So, that doesn't mean that God's not there. It's just there's always been this dynamic of trying to to figure out the unfigurable.

11:46 Yes. And usually in our life the things we can't figure out are the things that control us. Right. So, that's worship. So, it's the stuff that I meditate on. It's the stuff that I'm consumed by. So, the question of worship is what do you believe controls your life? Right. Okay, that's good. I appreciate you breaking that down cuz I want to I was just thinking for the person out there that's like, "Oh, I don't know about that." Like, I want to understand how you were viewing worship. I I I would agree with that. I think everybody has their mind set on something predominantly by and large whether you know, and you can we'll rate them as to whether they're good or bad. Like, "Oh, he's a family guy." And everybody's like, "Yeah, that's good." So, you know, well done. But, you know, it's what controls your life. Okay, I have friends like, you know, and and and I I believe in balance. I think balance is the thing. Yeah. I have friends that they believe that money controls their life. So, they make everything about money and they sacrifice their family on the altar of money, okay?

12:40 Right. I I believe I have friends that are the other way, right? They they they're they're they're not providing for their family. They're not uh doing the things that they need to do because hey, for them family is everything. But, then they have a lot of instability, right? So, it's figuring out the balance of these things of what in terms of what really is going to be the controlling factor in my life. So, um in the ancient world and we'll we'll get to manifesting, I think, right? In the ancient world no guarantees. But, in the ancient world uh worship wasn't about like appreciating nature. It wasn't about, "Oh, look at these trees and this is so amazing." It was about uh how do we get uh how do we prove our sincerity so that the gods or God will bless us. So, if I perform the right rituals, make the right offerings, say the right words, do the right things, I'll prove my sincerity and god or the god or gods will produce rain, fertility, a good harvest, whatever.

13:41 It's a transaction. So, this is kind of the same dynamic of of god in the Old Testament with the children of Israel. It's like, Mhm. make me happy and I'll bless you, disappoint me and I'll curse you. So, which is That's not the exact dynamic, dude. I'm A lot of it was. I mean, a lot of it was in their mind, is what I'm saying. Okay. Oh, in their mind. I was going to say, I don't believe that that was actually God's heart when he gave them the covenant. Okay. Yeah. So, what's important for I think what's important for us to understand is there's there's like God's perspective on what God says and our perspective on what God says. And Yeah. What what we see a lot played out in scripture is our perspective on what God says and then God always going, "Yeah, that's not the right way to think about it." Right. So, So, there's always this back and forth there. So, but the Israelites, like the people like you So, the Israelites, like the people that lived at their time, uh believed that god or gods that it was about transaction.

14:44 Mhm. Right? God is never trying to make our relationship with him about transaction. Right. But the Israelites believed that then and we believe this now. So, we believe that our relationship with God, because this is how human beings work, Mhm. we believe that our relationship with God is a transaction. So, I'm going to worship God and God's going to give me purpose. Yeah. to worship God and God's going to bless me. I'm going to read the Bible and then uh I'll be wise. I you know, there's there is a There is we can't help but do this. The And this is one of the reasons, ultimately as human beings, why we worship things is because I'm going to worship this thing and I'm going to achieve this outcome because I worship the thing. Right? And people won't be aware that this is how they're relating to God, right? Like cuz I think what you're saying is really there's a lot to it, man, because people will really struggle to understand grace and and what actual covenant is. And so they'll they'll default to contract, which is what you're saying. And like you and I, if we both have a contract, like well, I'm going to do this and you're going to do this and the moment one of us doesn't do that, like there's some repercussions in here and you know, and we're going to build that in. Like in a contract, you build the breakup before you actually break up. All right, you know, that's why prenuptial agreements are such a like ungodly thing because it's like you're planning to divorce this person.

16:07 Yeah. Well, and if you're entering into a covenant, you're committed to the person. Like when you when you read about God talking about covenant, he's talking about I will remember my covenant with you and and I desire to show you grace because of that covenant. Cuz he's committed to to the people. Yeah, you're you're interest you're entering into a covenant not just because of the person, but because of God. Right. that's what people don't understand about marriage is my marriage, the covenant with Courtney, is is partly based on me committing to her, but it's more based on me committing to God that God will make this marriage work even when I can or she can't. Well, because who's who's most who's the only one who's actually faithful? Everyone proclaims his own goodness, but a faithful man find. And what makes God's covenant The reason God can work with covenant and other people is because God is faithful. He's never changing and he demonstrates that to us if you look at the story of the book of in the Old Testament about about the Israelite people, God demonstrates what covenant actually does. I'm going to commit to you. Oh, you're going to walk away thousands of times, I'm committed to you. And I'll you know, I and you read it and it's it's absolutely mind-blowing and it just highlights how much we are not faithful. But I think that that's like when you have that revelation that God's committed to you like that, I think that's when you can start to accept grace. And one of the greatest things that you could ever accept is to know that there was that you could never earn it. And I feel like God like we people come to that um a lot of times people come to that because they hit rock bottom and like it's so obvious that they have not earned it that they finally get to a place that they accept it. But I also believe that you don't have to hit rock bottom. I believe that you can have a revelation of just realizing like who God is and just you know, it's like all have fallen short, right? And like we all like know that scripture all have fallen short of the of the glory of God.

17:52 Okay, yeah, all of sin have fallen short, totally. But like in our heads to the point that you make it's like but you know, my sins really haven't been that bad. Like I didn't cheat on my wife. I haven't murdered anybody. I didn't like, you know, defraud people or whatever you think of bad sin is. I didn't commit abortion. Like whatever you think a bad sin is. But then if you if something like that happens like for people who listening out here if they've had a divorce and they realize like God divorce is an abomination in God's eyes like, oh no. But it's like, look God is is the blood of Christ greater than all that? Yeah. And but it's such a hard like what you're saying is I want I'm just reiterating. It's so profound to say like we we deal on a transactional basis. So sorry, man. I just I think that I want to look at the application of that from a subtle the subtleties of that. Yeah. Well, I think that, you know, um the scripture Paul says in Romans 5, right? That God demonstrates his love for us that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

18:46 Right? And so every every aspect of our human life is conditional. It's all conditional. There is no such thing on this side of eternity as unconditional anything, especially between people. There like my wife is the most my my relationship with my wife is the most unconditional relationship that I could have. And maybe I could cheat on her once or twice before she'd leave me, but if I cheated on her 10 times, she'd leave me. Right. Right? Uh I I want to be I want to unconditionally love my kids and unconditionally be with them, but if my child is a serial killer, I'm really fine not having a relationship. Like our relationship is conditional, right? There You You say that, dude. I I would challenge you on that. And I think you're being a little cynical here. No, I mean there there In In every human relationship, there are conditions even if they're buried really, really deep somewhere. Like there It would change the relationship, but you wouldn't like a ban You wouldn't be like, "You're no longer my child."

19:45 Right? I mean, dude, you can't walk away from your kid. There could be something that could happen. Right? It could get bad enough. All right. But God but the And that's but that's just how Huh? That's a dark thought, bro. Like you can't Well, I think that's just human. Like and that's that's why we look at relationships as transactional so much. Right. Because the way that we by default approach life is as a conditional thing. It's like as long as we we talked about that with the church with these episodes we've done on the church. Like Well, I'll be a part of this church as long as X happens or as long as you don't hurt my feelings, as long as like whatever. As uh this this you know, this situation that I don't foresee doesn't happen. Right? I mean, I think that that there's a lot in human relationships that but but like covenant, there's a lot in human relationships that we think is unconditional, but we're not actually capable of unconditional relationships, but God is.

20:46 Right. why covenant's so important because Courtney right? If I'm mature in my walk with God, Courtney might not meet my conditions for us to be in relationship. But if I've made a covenant, what I know is that God makes up the gaps because God is unconditional. Right. what I mean by that is that there is no other relationship we can quantify that is an unconditional relationship like the relationship God has with us. So God unconditionally loves you which is not a transaction. Like you cannot do enough good to make him love you. You can't do enough bad to make him not love you. I don't know if I'm a once saved always saved person but I'm like a once saved really hard to get unsaved person. You know, I think that the grace of God is unfathomable to like the human mind. And so if we're not careful, we approach we think that the way God thinks about us is the way we think about life and that's conditional.

21:48 So that means that we our responsibility is to make God happy enough so that God will do good things for us and this is literally the biblical definition of self-righteousness. Right? So self-righteousness is me thinking that I did enough things today to make God happy. Right? Right? Like I'm in right standing with God because of what I do. Now what I do matters. Yeah. Keep going. Sorry. No, I was going to say help me tie the thread here, man. Cuz we asked about we asked we asked about whether or not like about manifesting. I asked you to define manifesting. You said we have to have the understand that the premise that we're made to worship. Then from there we talked a little bit about idols and about transactional relationships. So how is this tying like how how is this tying together? Like I want I want to follow your thread. I mean I think it's understanding that the fundamental nature of humanity is not God's fundamental nature. And if we we don't notice that, we turn we turn our relationship with God into a transaction even if we've walked with God for a long time, we still can turn our relationship with him into a transaction. Because you come to God, you receive his grace and then you start to think that your walk with God is dependent on you doing things Right.

23:03 not. Like your success in life, there's a difference between um winning in life and going to heaven. I'll say it that way. Yeah. If you do what scripture teaches you to do, you'll have a good life. Right? You you'll be fulfilled, you'll have a good marriage, you'll have good relationships, you'll probably make good money, uh you'll be a good steward, on and on. You can go to heaven without any of that. Right? So so the relationship with God is not conditional on you and I doing the right things a lot. Okay. Also, like Well, I'll Yeah, we'll come we'll come back to that at some point on the podcast cuz we'll we'll have this whole conversation about conditions. But I want to get back to what we're talking about. So, the human the human thinking about God or gods or higher powers or worship is about a transaction. I'm going to do this so I get this.

23:55 Okay? Yeah. Um in the ancient world, and this is what people miss in scripture. I think this is something that people miss in the Bible is that it wasn't like they worshipped other gods instead of God. Right. Yeah. Okay? So, think again, think about what I'm saying, those of you that are listening. Our tendency is to worship things. We turn worship into a transaction. And most human beings worship God and other things, not God instead of other things. Yes. So, you don't have one god, you have many gods. Right. Right? This is polytheism. This is what Hinduism is in the you know, Baha'i, the Baha'i faith. The Baha'i faith believes that all religions kind of point to this greater sense of God, and all religions should be equally respected. Hinduism, the the reason that it's hard to reach Hindus with Christianity is because Hindus just add Jesus to their pantheon of gods. Everything's a god. We worship everything. We we just have this generally spiritual nature. So, that's really more how humans are than singular in their one God approach. So, uh in in in you know, one of the most famous stories in the Bible um is when Elijah goes to Mount Carmel in 1 Kings 18 and he challenges Baal uh and the Baal and the prophets of Baal and the prophets of Asherah to a battle basically against God.

25:19 But, one of the things Elijah says that we miss is in uh later later in it's like somewhere in the chapter he says, "How long will you go limping between two opinions?" Yes. Yeah. Right? And so, the idea of that is how long are you going to waver in your loyalty here? Mhm. So, they weren't atheists, they weren't secularists, they weren't um people that worship Baal instead of God. They worship God and they worship they worship Baal. And so, they uh and you see this throughout the Old Testament as it relates to what what's called Asherah poles. Yeah, they're all the time. Yeah. And they didn't worship Asherah instead of God. They worshiped Asherah and God. So, they're like, "Okay, we got God, but also like we um we need fertility and we want to have children and we need we need it to rain.

26:12 So, like we'll worship Yahweh, Baal, every and and and Just like an insurance policy. Yeah. Well, this was normal, right? Thousands of years ago because most most ancient cultures are polytheistic. Right. So, Canaanite culture, Babylonian um these different people that were all around the Israelites worshiped you know, worshiped everything. Right? It puts it puts it in different it puts it in in real perspective for the Elijah story. If you if you're listening and you didn't realize that Bale or Baal, however people or Bale, however you want to pronounce it, was the God of like storm, the storm God, when he when when God makes it dry for 3 years and you have a drought and then they have this showdown where it's like we're going to have someone basically it says fire from heaven. What that essentially is is lightning which would once again be a storm god. It's like God's doing everything he can to let the people know, "Look, like it Baal is is a is not a god."

27:07 Right? Because I mean he set the conditions up where he's like, "You've been slashing yourself for 3 years and nothing's happening. And I'm going to even go as if that wasn't enough to show you that you're you're that that he's not a god and that you need to trust in me, I'm going to do this first and then when Isaiah or when Elijah gives the word, then it'll rain." Yeah. So He was literally talking to them. Yeah. Yeah, so for the ancient Israelites Baal and Asherah were an insurance policy. Right? It was like yeah. Okay, well yeah Yahweh is cool, man. Like we we're down. That's our identity. Like we're the children of Israel and we have we have a special god that only we have a relationship with but also like we'll we'll worship your gods too just in case that works. Yeah. Right? And so they like I want the true god but also I want this like insurance policy that it's going to rain and uh that where there's going to be fertility. And so um so they erect what's called Asherah poles all throughout the nation of Israel. Right? So we know how the story ends that Elijah prays a simple prayer, the prophets of Baal are destroyed, on and on.

28:13 Right? The the righteous kings come in throughout the Old Testament and they tear down all the Asherah poles. You have a guy like Gideon in the book of Judges that runs around tearing down other people's Asherah poles and they get mad at him. But but like the the thing we think is that they're worshipping another god instead of God but the thing is they're worshipping both. Okay? So um and and these these poles with what I what's really interesting is um I'll say two things about history and then we'll jump into like the modern world. So they found like different Asherah poles and shrines like in the Middle East, like in Israel. There's There's one that they found um that uh that that that that the Israelites had written an inscription on it that said Yahweh and his Asherah. So, like people erected Yeah. idolatrous and these if you could Google an Asherah pole, it's just a pole. She's like a It's a place they would just set up and they would worship and it just looks like a pole. So, there's nothing really cool about it. But, they set up idolatrous poles to worship God just in case. Like in in In my mind, this is all kind of like just in case stuff.

29:21 I I know God loves me as a plan for my life, but also like there's a transaction here. Right? Mhm. So, in just in case there is a transaction, I'm going to keep this as an insurance policy. And then what I find is really interesting is after So, they haven't found any of these figurines that were after the Babylonian the the any of these figurines or like Asherah poles or anything like that that were made after the Babylonian exile. Huh. So, something broke in kind of uh Hebrew society that was like, "You know what? We're not going to do this anymore." Mhm. Right? And the second thing is that I find really interesting, which is a whole other conversation I think for another day, but it's worth mentioning is that um Jesus said when he went to Jerusalem he said that the temple was going to be destroyed, right?

30:12 Yeah. And people thought he was talking about his body, but he wasn't. He's talking about the physical, the actual temple in Jerusalem. And for the Israelites a requirement of Judaism is that you make sacrifices at the temple. Mhm. Right? This is a requirement of following God well. Well, Emperor Trajan in the history of the Roman Empire, he destroys the temple at Jerusalem where Jews can't Like to this day a Jew could not go make a sacrifice at the temple cuz there's literally a mosque where the temple used to be. Yeah, man. Right? And so it's actually impossible to practice Judaism in the way that God describes it in the Old Testament. Mhm. Right? And so what rabbis have said, if you read the Talmud, that they what they said what they've said was oh well, the temple's not now our hearts are a temple. God never said that. That's just kind of like what we've adapted, right?

31:05 So God what's interesting is God pretty much, if you seek him, you'll find him and he'll make a way where you can't worship anything else except him. Right. Right? And that's and that's where we can get into like manifesting cuz I'm drawing these historical comparisons, okay? Can I ask you a quick question though, man? Cuz Asher Asher was the god of fertility, right? And they were worshipping both. And uh Baal or Bal, however you want to say it, was the storm god, which was basically their sustenance. And the two were so closely tied cuz if you didn't have descendants, you couldn't you know, everybody was a farmer, right? Like everybody was kind of you needed your family to help you live, not to mention so that you would continue your your line and you would give everything to your descendants. And so it was very important these two things. What's the modern-day here? Because it's like I suppose on the one hand you could say like well, does this make like modern medicine and hospitals is that not trusting God? Like I you know, this is a controversial one, but there's IVF. Like and and you know, where is trusting God with IVF?

32:06 You know, you know what I mean? Like these are these are things that can become real wrestling topics. And so I that's why I'm asking you like what do you think this looks like modern day? Yeah, I and that's so like you know, if you like reading it's not as neat like as we think, right? That the ancient world and the way they approach gods was not as neat. So like even how they approach God, like they use secular So like there's a god in the ancient world named El. Right? Oh, really? And and and some of the language that's used for these like pagan gods becomes language that's used for God. Not like Yahweh, but like the words like El or Elohim. Like these words are were secular first. Right? Yeah. And so then this is like this is the real God. So even in the ancient world El and Asherah were were married. And Baal's in the mix. So like it was common for people to go, "Oh yeah, like I know the Yahweh guy. Like he's he's Asherah's husband."

33:04 Oh, wow. Which is not how God's defining himself, but again humans like we're always trying to contextualize our experience in in in the midst of what we know already. So So but to your question Yes. Um we live in a world, you know, we live in a world I think So I'll say I'll say again what we've said on the podcast, right? So far on this particular one is we're created to worship stuff. Right. Okay? So idolatry is not any different today than it ever has been. We just worship different things or we put different language on it. So Right. Well, what do we worship now? Like we worship ourselves and we worship our own mentalities and our you know, that's that's not like a new thing, but like there is a um Socrates would have these debates with people um which these guys were called sophists and I'm not going to get into all that stuff, but he's in a there's a particular debate that he had with somebody where this person said man is the measure of all things.

34:05 Mhm. Right? So and a lot of people that are secular like live in that context where we're the highest being, we're the highest level of anything that exists and so our our perspectives, our definitions, our desires are the chief desires in in the universe. Right. Um this isn't this is a part of self-worship. Right? We we we are surrounded by people that even if you're a Christian you can be a secularist, that you can think the problem is the government. That's secularism. Right. Right? Uh you can think that if we write better laws, then we'll have better people. Right? You you don't admit that the problem is the human heart. The problem is society. The problem is we just haven't had a good enough idea. We just don't have the you know, and there's a balance. I mean, I think people can I think people can over-spiritualize their life and their experience. I think people can under-spiritualize their life and experience. So, things like IVF or medicine, uh you just got to decide where you land on those particular those particular things. Right?

35:11 Yeah. So, so you're saying it's where you ultimately put your trust in if I'm hearing you right. It cuz like the you talked about the secularist examples you gave when you're like, "Oh, well, if we" cuz to me, if you're like, "If we had better laws, we'd have better people." It's like, "Well, who transforms hearts?" Right? So, it's it's like where you put your trust. and even Christians think that well, no, we can do that. If we get the right president, it'll fix everything. Yeah. Right? If we get the right If we get the right state senators, if uh if I just do enough, like if I do enough, well, God'll fix my marriage. Mhm. If I If I do enough, well, I'll be a good enough parent. I think one of the things that I'm really more aware of than ever is like I'm my responsibility in my family is to raise my kids right. Their decisions are not a are not really reflective of well, in a in to an extent as my kids get older.

36:05 Their extent Their decisions are reflective of my parenting, but that's maybe 50% of the equation. The other 50% is their decisions are reflective of their own personal character that they develop. Right? And I think there's this there's this desire that we have again, it's transactional because there's the desire we have to control outcomes. Right. And so we live in a culture today where we're not paying attention to the aspect of us that's set up to worship. And so we we live in, you know, to the question that we got that I got today. It's about manifesting. Right. So can we talk about Christian manifesting? Um Okay. Like I can think about it enough and vibrate at the right frequency that it comes to being. That type of thing. So fundamentally, right, manifesting is you are the source of your reality. You are.

37:00 You are the one that controls the outcomes, okay? And the more you believe, like conceive, believe, achieve, the more you step into uh seeing in life what you want to see and really not like just believing it's going to happen, but knowing in your soul that it's going to happen. Like this is how people talk about manifesting. The more the more that life is going to happen for you. Okay? Mhm. And um let me let me balance that with a thought process and then I'll answer the question cuz I want to I want people to think about this. And I want to say this. Prayer is Christian manifesting. Right. What do you mean by that? Prayer is Prayer is Christian manifesting. If you want to manifest something, pray about it. Now here's the thing about prayer though, okay? Is um there's a tension that we have to live in. Number one, right, which is back to worship, who do you believe controls your life?

37:59 Right. if you are a person who thinks that you control your life, you don't worship God. You worship yourself. And this is where this is where the fundamental idea of manifesting, even if a person says they're a Christian, if they believe in manifesting to that extent, they're not a Christian. Okay. Now, if you're listening to this, I'm not saying you're not a Christian. But what I am saying is that if you think that you are the measure of things and that you control your reality and you can manifest whatever you want in your life, you do not worship God, you worship yourself. You worship your own thoughts cuz you think if I can think high enough, then I'll have the life that I want to have. Right. Okay? So, prayer is Christian manifesting. But, the thing we have a fundamental misunderstanding of what prayer is. Right.

38:50 prayer is, again, back to this whole conversation you and I have been having and this is like us bringing it to in a circle. What we think prayer is is a transaction between us and God. Mhm. Right? I think prayer in my immature state is about me asking God for all the things I want, all the things I desire and him either saying yes, no, or maybe to those things. Right. Yeah. And that's how prayer that's how a Christian songs about that as well. That's how prayer is taught. Prayer is taught as well, just ask God just ask God, just ask God, just ask God. And sometimes he'll say yes and sometimes he'll say no and sometimes he'll say maybe. That is uh just so I think it's a fine place to start, but it's also so spiritually immature to think that way about prayer. Because it it's it's a it's a people that um and this is where I have frustration personally with like pastors who are like theologically uneducated Mhm.

39:43 and don't read the Bible very well and don't study the Bible because you have I have a responsibility to teach people a biblical way to think and to show them what the scripture teaches, right? And to to have this simplistic idea of prayer um sabotages the faith of everybody who follows me. Okay? Okay. So, what's the right view? So, so manifesting is thinking that you control reality, you control the outcome and if you get your thoughts, your intentions, or your vibration high enough the universe is impersonal and it'll just come to you, okay? What is Christian manifesting, right? Psalms 37:4 says, "Delight yourself in the Lord and he'll give you the desires of your heart." Okay? This is actually a process. Right.

40:33 Right? So, what comes first is not delight in yourself. Right. Okay, so so fundamentally, at the most basic level, who has the plan for my life? Do I have the plan for my life or does God have the plan for my life? If I think that God has the plan for my life, then my focus is not going to be on making sure that what I want in my life happens. This is where manifesting becomes un not Christian. Not biblical. you're on the you're on the throne when you manifest something. there saying, "Here's what I want and the universe, God, however, whatever word I want to use, is going to move in my direction." Now, if I know anything about God in the almost 40 years of my life, right? If I know anything about God, it's that God is not concerned with moving my direction.

41:27 Right. Like, he has a plan, he's working it out and I get a decision to make. Am I going to be a part of the plan or am I not going to be a part of the plan? That's the decision. It's not I change I change the plan based on what you think it should be. So, there has to be an understanding of who's in control here, right? You can Back to worship. I had a great real quick to what you just said. I think C.S. Lewis gave one of the best analogies ever. He said like the the timeline of humanity is like a cruise ship and like you have a lot of choice what you do to be on the cruise ship, but the cruise ship is still going to get where it's going and you don't get to change that. So, you can choose how much you enjoy the cruise, but and where you go on the ship, but the ship's still going to arrive and then that's what you're saying. And there's this tension there's this tension between the sovereignty of God and the agency of humanity and we always have we always have to figure out how to navigate that, right? So, how do we navigate it? Prayer. Psalms 37:4, delight yourself in the Lord, he'll give you the desires of your heart. The first place where manifesting is unbiblical is we do not delight in the Lord, we're delighting in ourselves.

42:31 Mhm. So, what God wants us what God wants us to do is delight in the Lord, delight ourselves in God, like understand that God has a plan, God's working out the plan in your life, right? So, the Greek word for prayer, one of the Greek words for Greek words for prayer that's used throughout the New Testament is this word proseuchomai, proseuchomai. And what that word means is to exchange wishes. Right, yes. That's what And this is what I want people to really understand about what it means to pray, right? Mhm. 1 Thessalonians says to pray without ceasing. Like we should always be in an attitude of prayer, right? Mhm. But you have to understand what prayer is. Prayer is if I truly delight myself in the Lord, then what I want what I do when I pray, and this is such a spiritual exercise, what I do when I pray is I tell God what I want, but then if I really really seek God, then what's going to happen is he's going to change my heart to desire what he desires for me.

43:32 Yes. So, delight yourself too, as well. Yeah. So, delight yourself in the Lord and he'll give you the desires of your heart. Well, there's an in-between part. Delight yourself in the Lord, he'll change the desires of your heart, and then he'll give you what he wants for you. Yes. Which is better than anything you and I can ask, think, or imagine, okay? Yeah. And what I find like so um what I find so interesting like attached to this, okay, is this isn't about having a vision board, this isn't about, you know, you got to tell God stuff that you want. Scripture says to do that. Like tell God, make your request, pray, fight for all your cares on him. Cast your cares him, right? Jesus Jesus taught that praying is like the the the widow who talked to the judge who didn't care. Right.

44:23 Right? So here's the question. Here's the question of of manifesting, okay? Here's the test. Is my heart like am I submitted to God's will or am I trying to use God as a tool to accomplish my will? Mhm. If you're if you're trying to use God as a tool you're you're manifesting. You're you're living in a space where you're the measure of all things. Yeah. Right? It's when you're tied to an outcome, isn't it? When you're tied to an outcome, that's whenever you start moving away from the place where you can actually hear from God. And that's why it's like the transaction that or I shouldn't say transaction, but God does business with you at your heart level, right? He's you know, he talked about how they offer me, they honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. And that was like the absolute and like not what God wanted was that your heart would be far from it. So it's like that that is really where this is done. And it's hard, man, because you like to quote all the time, your heart is wicked and deceitful above all things. Who can Who can know it? And it's I the Lord search the hearts of all men. And then thankfully in Ezekiel 36, he said, "I'll give you a new heart.

45:26 I'll replace your heart of stone, aka heart hearted hard hearted, with a heart of flesh, right? And I'll write my law on it. Aka he's going to put his spirit in us." Praise the Lord for that. So what's the thing that God wants to do? Wants to change us fundamentally. Mhm. Right? When you decide to worship God and you and you and you decide to live your life in it to an extent that you go, "You know what? God controls the flow of my life and I'm going to do everything I can to just like serve him." Mhm. You don't get as concerned about what you do or don't have, how things are going or aren't going. Right? So but but God I mean here's the fundamental thing and like we can we can land here, but this is kind of like a deep thought, right? So, in Romans 4, the Bible says it's God who speaks things that are not as though they were. So, Christians will take this and go, "Well, I can do that, too." Um God is the great manifestor of everything. He makes He makes impossible things possible, right? There's There's There's no such thing as things that are impossible with God.

46:28 Right? Um the word the in the Old Testament when God speaks the word that's used in the Hebrew for the speaking of God is creation. So, when God talks, he creates. The The book of James says that death and life are in the power of the tongue. Charles Capps has a great book uh about the power of the the power of the tongue, right? The power of the spoken word. Uh like we have We're We're created in God's image. And we have we do have the ability, I think our words are creative. Like and my words are creative in like a fundamentally practical way where like with my kids, right? With your kids how I speak about them determines how they see themselves. Yeah, big time. That's creative. That's creative force. If I tell my kids they're great, if I tell my kids they can do it, if I tell them that they're tough, if I tell them that they're brave, if I tell them that they're special, they're going to That's going to manifest in their life.

47:26 Right. So, it's not that manifesting doesn't happen. Death and life are in the power of the tongue. The tongue like our thoughts and our speech is not just imaginative, they're creative. Right? And if you if you zoom in the the the smallest quantum level thing that they found that exist is vibration. Right? Everything's made of vibrations. So, like these ideas of frequencies and vibrations, they're not They're not wrong. Right? Right. Um when we speak like there's resonant frequencies, right? All mass has resonant frequencies. So, so what we speak creates things at the quantum level beyond what we can see. Like, there's a lot of implications for this. Yeah. So, God creation and destruction is a frequency issue. It's a vibration issue. But, here's the thing.

48:17 God wants to manifest certain things. And I have power within me to actually manifest certain things, too. But, if I live my life trying to manifest what I think should happen, I'm going to miss what God thinks should happen, which is always better. Mhm. So, it's not that God has it I don't think that spiritually, right, this works the same where like we have the same power as God, but we do have God-like power in our life. Over what we speak. But, here's what God wants to do. What God wants to do is get us on the same page with him so that we can think like he wants us to think, live how he wants us to live, speak how he wants us to speak. And if I want to live, if I come back to worship, if I put God on the throne in my life, if I put him uh uh on the altar, and I believe that God controls the flow of my life, then my responsibility is I'm going to delight myself in the Lord.

49:12 He's going to change the desires of my heart, and the desires of my heart are going to happen. And what God wants for me is always way better than than what I want for me. But, the tension uh and this is where we can maybe come back on a later episode. The tension for the Israelites as well as us is not whether we manifest or worship God. It's not whether they worship Baal or God. It's we're trying to do both. And what God says is it's just me or anything that's not just me is idolatry. So, thinking about what you want, the thing like you said it a second ago, the thing that we ultimately have to land on is that my plan for my life and God's plan for my life are not the same thing. His plan is better. It also won't make sense to me and this is Proverbs 3. Why right? Do not lean on your own understanding.

50:07 Mhm. In all your ways acknowledge God and he'll direct your paths. That's That's fundamentally what it's about is me going, you know what? I don't understand what's happening right now. This doesn't make a lot of sense. My responsibility is to keep God in his rightful place in my life, delight in him, love him, worship him, and then he will direct the flow of my life to a better place than I could ever imagine. Thank you for listening to The Dialog. Make sure to like, share, and subscribe. And also, if you think someone else would enjoy this, please send it to them. If you want to get in touch or learn more about me, what I think, speak, and write, you can go to joshuacraft.com or you can also follow Nick and I on Instagram. Our handles are in the show notes. We'll see you next time.