Joshua Keith Craft

0:52 One of the things I've been really, you know, your your kids are younger than mine, but I've got 13, 11, and 6. And one of the things that I've I like you have to parent them differently. I'm sure you're doing the same thing. I've been really interested about temperament. And something I haven't I'm going to study it more because there's for some people things are just harder, right? Like they have more emotional swings. You know, my I've got a teenager now, right? Like my daughter's 13. So, she like so I kind of go, "Okay, what of this is hormones?" And then I cuz I've known her whole life, I go back and I'm like, "No, there's some threads that have been in here for a while that like maybe this is not hormonal." But anyways, I say all that to say like I I I some people just have opinions about everything. And like I also I there's some things that I just I have no opinion about. I don't think about. I don't And like And I I just I wonder about like where um where that comes from, you know? I think culture says, right? Like you're pretty much required to have an opinion about everything.

1:46 How do you think it does? Yeah, you you have to pick which side you're on. You have to pick who you're going to vote for. If you don't vote, I mean it's just this idea of like if you don't vote, you're a loser. All right. Right? if don't vote, you are a loser. I'm going to go ahead and agree with that. So, the idea like the idea of that is like you need to pick a side in everything. Like every everything in life you should have an opinion about, but like Marcus Aurelius in Meditations, he said, "You always have the option of having no opinion." Right. And And I like that because I would rather not speak. Sometimes people will ask me and I'll be like, you know, I really don't have anything to add here. I was I think that's probably the wisest thing you can say sometimes. Yeah, I mean Yeah, I I think that the the there's a there's a difference between uh having an opinion and uh having fruit. Right. Right? Yeah. So, like this is what younger younger people don't understand. Like I think in my 20s I didn't understand this. I had a lot of like thought processes and beliefs and here's what I think and here's how I think things should be and here's how I think things should go and then people think that because they have an opinion that they they uh are knowledgeable.

2:52 Yeah. Right? Like in in And so, the the proof of like your knowledge is the fruit of what that opinion is. Yeah. Right? In your own life. But a lot of people like we live in a world that's like everything like you think about, you know, 50 years ago, you weren't people that were idiots weren't going to get platformed. Right. Right? Like if you're stupid and you have a lot of stupid stuff to say or you're like a troll, like we you know, internet trolls and all that. Like now you can turn that into a career. It's church tried. Where where your whole Yeah, your whole deal is like I'm going to get in the comments Yeah. and I'm going to mix it up with everybody and say a bunch of stupid stuff and that'll get a lot of attention. Well, 50 years ago, those people existed, but they just lived in like a town and everyone knew they were annoying and they got beat up a lot. You're just You're just assuming that. Yeah, I mean they just go in a bar and say something dumb and get get smoked. Right.

3:43 So, like that's So, we live in a different world now where the more outrageous you are, the more people are going to engage with you. Yeah. So, everything's about like engagement versus whether or not something's actually smart. what's fun though, man? For just cuz you said that thing when you were you talked about when you were younger. One of the things I'm finding now because I've been podcasting for a little while, like 4 and 1/2 years, and I've I've changed a lot, right? In 4 and 1/2 years. You've got this because you've been preaching for a while. When you can go back and like listen to yourself from years ago, Uh. Like that but that's the good thing about what we're doing now. it though. I hate it though cuz I'm like, man, I was so stupid. Why was I say Why was anyone allowing me to talk? I should not have been I should not have been allowed to talk. Yeah, but but fast forward 5 years, man. You might You might go back and listen to episode 1 and be like, man, I had no cuz like, you know, this is the thing that's so exciting about like living life with God. You have no idea what what God's going to do and and the doors that are going to open. I just think that that's an exciting thing. Like I Yeah, I but I think the way I feel more about that is I'm just always embarrassed about the past.

4:40 man? Cuz it just it it it reveals your immaturity, right? Yeah. So, I go, oh my gosh, like thank God I'm not that person anymore. Like I always feel like I've always felt like my 20s and so many people are like, my 20s are the best time of my life. My 20s were the worst time of my life. And my 20s were the worst time of my life cuz of how I thought. I thought so poorly in my 20s Yeah, me, too. that if I revisited that, it's not if I revisited that for any other purpose than learning a lesson, it would be just uh detrimental to my soul. Well, what was so poor about it, man? My my thinking? Oh, man. Uh I think um in my 20s I was very insecure, just dealt with a lot of insecurity. Felt like I was never going to be good at anything. So, any kind of criticism or feedback or constructive correction conversation was like to cut me to the quick, stab me in the heart, I quit, I want to walk away from everything.

5:34 Yeah. You know, so things that were supposed to help me didn't help me because of how I thought. Right. Um I walked around, and I think a lot of it was rooted in like insecurity, but I walked around and um would not take advantage of opportunities cuz I didn't feel like I had what it take. I would have like open doors in different things and I just be like, "No, I can't do that. I don't have what it take." Even though the door's right there, the the there's like a wide open opportunity. I'd just say no. I was a very defensive person. Like I remember one time I was talking to my my mom about some feedback that someone had given me and uh on this creative work I was doing in my 20s, right? I'm talking to my mom about this. Like I'm calling my mom complaining about this person, you know, they hurt my feelings when they critiqued my work Yeah. that they were paying me to do. Right. I have a client and when you work with clients, you just do you need to do what they need you to do, right?

6:29 I don't know I know what you're saying to me right now. 20s treating client work like it's my art. Right. Like, you know, how dare this person besmirch my fingerprint. You you you were Kanye, but you were hired. Yeah, I was Kanye, but I was, you know, making $2,000 building a website for somebody. Like take it easy there, Picasso. Exactly. Exactly. So I'm having this conversation with my mom. She's like asking me how it was going and I'm just giving her all the stuff and I'm so defensive about this feedback that this person had given me that again is paying me to do this work. You know, and I just need to shut up and get the work done so I can get the money. Yeah. And she says she says, "You know, you know why you're so defensive?" And I go, "Why?" She goes, "Cuz you're insecure." Dude. Mom was a sniper. Call her mom a sniper. She went straight to the root. Cuz the most defensive person is always the most insecure person. Mhm. So anyway, all that was was so prevalent in my thinking throughout my 20s that it's not that I didn't grow. It's not that I didn't develop. I just made it really hard Yeah.

7:29 because of how I thought, right? So I've had harder things happen in my life since my 20s, but nothing has been nothing is harder. Right? Nothing is more difficult than really having that days. a lot of people can relate to that though, man. Like like being insecure. I mean I I remember when I was in my late 20s and like you'd be talking to those old wise heads, you know, people in their 30s and they would be like, "Man, since I've turned 30, it's so great. I don't care what people think about me anymore." Or and I remember like listening to this, I was like, "That actually sounds pretty great." Like I would love to cuz I've I was not like a super insecure person like where I'd walk around like, "Oh, no one likes me." But I was also like, you know, yourself you're conscious of what people are thinking about you and like I I walk into a room now. I I literally that thought never enters my my mind. Yeah, for me it's been more like being around people I would always hear people in their 30s when I was in my 20s, I would always hear people in their 30s talk about how how much the 20s was like the best time of their life, their glory days and Yeah, but what were they doing? Were these like sinful people though?

8:28 I don't know. I mean so like I made some of my best friend in college. I hated the college I went to. I didn't really make any friends there. I have one friend right now from college. And the only reason why they're still my friend is cuz they've pursued me cuz I was like I just hate this so much. Yeah. Um and again, all that's back to my thinking. It's not about the place. Uh shout out to Oral Roberts University. Yeah, shout out to ORU. I'm so sorry. I'm really bad alumni and it's it's gotten so much better since I went there. When I went there, it was not great, but it's different. Oh, yeah, man. I mean they thought they were going to shut the school down my sophomore year. Yeah, cuz all the controversy with Richard Roberts and everything and people can Google that, but that was when I was that was like my sophomore year we just or my freshman year was like broken stuff in the dorms, all this deferred maintenance. We're like we don't know if the school's going to stay open. So it's totally different school now.

9:20 You you worked for Facebook when it was a startup. Yeah. And then left. Yeah. So um so I look back at that and now I hear I hear still hear people our age who talk about their 20s like, "Oh man, yeah, when I was in college." They have all these fun stories. Like all my all All stories from school are all the all the things I hated, all the ways I thought that were poor. Yeah. I just never want to be that person that talks about like their best days are behind them. Cuz like I think there's an advantage to every single decade that you're in. You know, like like I look at cuz like where do you think your insecurity came from? Do you think it was just part of your age or like a battle that I fight I think like you were saying about your kids. I mean I think I was talking to Courtney about this this week. I have these really um You know, I don't mind sharing this. It's like I have in my life my whole life, right? I'll have There's not a cause. There's not like something that's oh this is like a trigger. And I'm sure someone could diagnose me and say oh no I know what your trigger is, but I don't I don't feel like I have a trigger here. Like my whole life since I was a little kid I would have I'll have random depressive episodes in my life.

10:23 Huh. Not like uh Not like depression depression. I mean maybe it is, but I'll have I'll have times where I have like a week or a couple days where I'm just like everything sucks and life is awful and it doesn't matter how good life is and it's not really caused by anything. So it's not like I can sit here and say oh this happened and that led me here. Right. I just have this internal like my biggest battle in my life has always been internal. Do do you have like a playbook to get you out of that now? Cuz I kind of feel like we're talking about self-awareness which is which is a really underrated skill. No I was telling Courtney that this this is this week cuz she thought that we had this whole conversation cuz she thought I was mad at her or she thought I was upset at her and I'm just like I'm just I reach this point and it's not good. It's just like the darkest kind of moments in my life where I'm just like done with everything. I'm like I know what to do. I know what to do to dig I can dig dig out of this hole, but I think I'll just dig the hole deeper.

11:17 You just like obviously yeah I mean it's really like you know, I know I'm I know and and as a as an adult with responsibilities, with kids, and with a spouse and all that like you really shouldn't be this way. What's your responsi- Yeah, you got the responsibility to get good and get better. of responsibilities. So, me being that way when I was a teenager or maybe in that way in my 20s or maybe in that way even in my early 30s is one thing. Me having to deal with that now creates significant friction in all my relationships, right? So, so I get to this place where I just go, you know, nothing's going to work out, nothing's working, like my life is useless and the stuff that I'm doing is meaningless and none of it matters and everybody um not everybody's mad at me, but I don't I just don't add value to anybody. Right. And then no matter what people say to me when I'm in that state, uh I'm like, it doesn't it doesn't work, it doesn't So, I I have this So, there's like this need So, the way I'll say it cuz it's like a little bit hard to explain, honestly.

12:21 We all have a need for affirmation. I have a need for affirmation. I I get to this place where I'm really down on myself, really negative about myself. People around me affirm me when I'm in a season like that. I reject all the affirmation to the point where they don't want to talk to me anymore cuz I'm such an idiot. Right. Right? I'm not being mean, but I'm being completely disconnected from reality. Right. Right? And there's no way anyone can help me until I pull myself out of that. So, what snaps you out of it, man? Um I just have to sit there and have a bunch of conversations with myself. Like that's that's to me personally, it's one of the reasons why philosophy's really become so important to me is like Cicero said, philosophy teaches you to be a doctor to yourself. Yeah. Cuz I've had That's good. Like Paul talked about stuff like his thorn in the flesh, right? He asked God to remove it and God said, "My power is made perfect in your weakness." I I don't sit here and say, "Oh, yeah, that's my thorn in the flesh."

13:14 But I can look back at my life and it's like independent of season. It's not like, "Oh, I was in a uh I was just in a really bad situation or this this horrible thing happened to me that sent me back to like PTSD or I had some kind of medical issue or I have some kind of like you know, you you get older and people start talking about your hormones and like it's not like I have these deficiencies somewhere that you've checked all that? Yeah, I mean it's not like I have a deficiency somewhere that says, "Oh, yeah, this makes sense why you would have that that dynamic, right?" So I just have this this it's really just a dynamic that happens in my life that is may you know, maybe it's part of my personality. Maybe maybe there is I don't know, man. Like maybe there is some kind of trauma that's in my past that I just don't remember. I have no idea. Right. Right? Regardless of that, there's a battle I have to fight. Yeah. what I'm saying? Yeah. So so for me um going and learning a lot about philosophy has given me tools to be able to really have a conversation with myself cuz I'm just saying when I'm in that state, no one can say anything to me. Right. No one can talk to me. No one can uh there's nothing anyone can do to help me not be that way. Like when I was a kid, sometimes we'd go on vacation. I'd be on vacation with my family as a teenager and I would just like enter this state and I would stay in I'd turn all the lights off. I would stay in whatever room I was in the whole week.

14:34 And I just wouldn't leave. And my no one my parents couldn't help me. My you know, I'd just sit there sit there honestly just being pitiful about life and pitiful about everything. And they just leave me in the room. Huh. What do you So let me ask you a question, man, cuz like I think this is we're we're talking about self-awareness. And like I said, I think self-awareness is super underrated skill because I remember you know our first I remember the first time you and I had a longer conversation, man. I I still remember we were at like a uh it was a financial leaders breakfast and I was at the back doing something. I can't even remember and I ended up you ended up stood by me. And so we had this whole conversation while everything was going on up front when they still set the tables up in the actual like the first time y'all and us went to dinner, we were at dinner for like 3 hours. Oh, dude. We've Yeah, we've always we've always gotten along. But I just remember I remember I resonated with you because obviously I was depressed for a while. And like that's probably a great way to say I was No, I mean you've talked about that before.

15:25 Yeah, no, I'm just saying what it is. But usually you don't go like, we resonate because I was depressed. both really sad. Hey, we're going to be miserable together. Yeah, what's misery love, Josh? Oh, yeah, company. But no, but I just because I recognize the thoughts in you. I think it's really interesting because like we both share a very close friend in Garrett, right? And Garrett's like, you know, he's had one depressive thing that was linked to COVID ever. And I remember he called me and I I mean it was like it was like he was like, "What is this?" Like it was so foreign to him because it was just he's never felt that. I think a lot of people they battle discouragement, right? It's like it's a common thing. And when you when you've been depressed, you know what it is to wake up and have like no motivation for anything, right? And that that really is what it is. It's like every day is the same. Like you know, it's permanent, pervasive, and personal. That's what Dr. Martin P. Seligman says in his book Learned Optimism. And he's it's a very good book. And you know, and that's really it. It's like this you know, this is what always happens to me. This is how life is. And like you feel powerless. And that's a really I would say I don't feel like for me I don't feel powerless. I don't want to have any power.

16:26 Right. Like I'm just like I'm I'm genuinely like in my in my in this in the state that I'm in I'm like, "F this. Nothing matters. I'm not freaking I'm not doing one productive thing and screw everything." So it's like they just took all the energy out of your system. Yeah, I could not care less about anything, how this affects anybody. Like, you know, I prefer that people feel like I hate them right now. Like just it's not great. So so so okay, so this is the question I want to get to because for me, like I'll just say how I found it because I think this is useful for people because I think I think the real thing everybody's going to have something different in their temperament. I believe that it's a good and godly thing that you learn how to lead yourself, right? Like that's your responsibility. Self-discipline is your responsibility, right? And and so as you so as you get more skilled at this, for me what I found was I found the root of it was my thinking, right? And it was it was some very poor beliefs. So like I've worked very intentionally to get out of those things and I had like a protocol that I would use to Tony Robbins would call state change of like man I feel like cuz I would wake up some days and it was like I felt like a zero. Like I would I exactly what you said, no motivation to do anything. And so I started looking at things, okay, what am I doing biologically? And then also it's like, well, it's not an option. I've still got to provide for a family, my family of five. I got to do and so like I had to find ways and I got very practical at like what I called my highway to happiness. So I found different things that would switch my state. Like I would look at pictures, things that I could control. Not like, hey, wouldn't it be great if I could get to Starbucks cuz what if I'm on a plane and I can't get a Starbucks or something stupid like that. So it's like certain songs, replaying certain memories in my life, looking at old photos, like things that just like stirred up that joy within me and I got really good at doing that. Now I will tell you, I can't even remember the last time I've had to do that, but I got to a stage where I was like I had to do that regularly. And then it was like I didn't have to do it as much. And then it got to a point where it would happen maybe once or twice a year where I would wake up and be like, oh, I'm like a one out of 10 today. But I had this protocol and I I felt like that was a really good skill to develop because I got really good at leading myself. What do you think is like from a biblical standpoint and from a philosophical standpoint is kind of like the responsibility of a person as far as that that aspect of self-leadership because maybe not everybody deals with the like I don't know if I'd call that depressive episodes or what you how you referred to it. But like everyone's going to have something, right? Like you don't most people don't wake up and go, I'm 10 out of 10 every day, right? Like what So what do you think the responsibility is?

18:50 Well, I think uh man, I think it's you know, learning how to think, right? You know, for me at least, you know, the the best way I can describe it is Erwin Erwin McManus has the seven frequencies test and um you know, people should take that test cuz what it one of the things it shows you is like your frequencies of communication, but one of the things it shows you is what your shadows are. So what like the negative aspects of your of your frequency is and the way you communicate. And so, my my number one frequency is Maven and the the shadow of a Maven is a nihilist. Oh, man. Right? So, a nihilist nihilism is nothing's ever going to be good, nothing's ever going to work, nothing matters. Yeah. So, I that's my shadow. So, where where where that comes from is from me, right? I the way I feel about that is that like we're talking about, there's these unique battles everybody has to fight, there are their battles to fight. And you can uh Daris Daniels just came and spoke at our men's conference and I think he did a great job of talking about David's armor.

19:52 You're right. And one of the things he said in about David's armor was it worked for Saul, but it didn't work for David. So, you you know, you can get tools and resources from other people, but their resources and tools work for them, they don't work for you. I mean, fundamentally that to me is the problem with self-help. The problem with self-help is you can read a book and it says, "Do all this and you'll be happy." Well, that's that one person's prescription that worked for them, right? And I and I feel like the problems that we have in life, the personal problems that we have, a lot of times are more like cancer. And what I mean by more like cancer is that one of the things that's really hard to treat about cancer biologically is everybody's body is completely different. So, your if you get cancer, it's your unique form of cancer even if it's a common cancer. Mhm. Right? It's like your body chemistry and everything, they have to tailor cancer treatment directly to your body because of your own individual cancer cells.

20:49 Right, okay. Right? I didn't know that. So, yeah, so so what works for one person's cancer is not going to work for another person's cancer. It's not like a disease you can just cure because everybody everybody's body expresses cancer completely differently based on who they are. Yeah. So, to me that's a little bit of a of a correlation, so to speak, of the battles that we fight in life that I've got to be the one who figures out the solutions to whatever the problems are that life uniquely presents to me. Right. So, one of those problems for me is I have this shadow of becoming a nihilist. And for for whatever reason, I think a lot of people spend too much time and I think there's nothing wrong with therapy and there's it's important, there's nothing wrong with having conversations with people and trying to figure out why you have the problems that you have, but really that doesn't matter. Right. Like, I think I think the cause of the problem does not matter because if you find the cause, you still don't you still don't have the solution.

21:45 Well, sometimes finding the cause helps though, don't you think? It can help you understand how to avoid the problem in the future. Yeah. But like if a building falls over and everybody dies, finding out why the building fell over doesn't make everybody come back to life. is irreparable, but like your your depressive states is reparable. Yeah, but a lot of that is not to me for me in my own life, a lot of like I'm saying, I can't trace it back to a certain trigger. Yeah, yeah. And most people probably can't trace their problems back cuz some things are just problems that you have. Right. Right, it's just your your unique human dynamic. Yeah. And so, you have to learn how to get out of that, right? So, one of the things Erwin says in his in the seven frequency stuff, which I think is such a great thought, is you're in your shadow whenever you're talking to yourself. Mhm. Or you're in your shadow whenever you're listening to yourself. You're in the light whenever you're talking to yourself.

22:37 Mhm. So, what a lot of people will do with the worst parts of themselves is they'll give that worst part of themselves a a voice. Yeah, for sure. And that's not just about being depressed or being sad, it's also about uh being prideful and being arrogant cuz you can give the worst part of yourself a voice and think that and have this super inflated sense of self-importance Yeah. and uh think that you're never going to do anything wrong. Like, people who live life and have no accountability, the way that they live is they're like, "No, I'm above accountability. Like, I'm I'm above I my life is above reproach." This is what I have to say to myself. Well, the problem is you're that's not true for any human being. Like, you're always going to have Yeah, but don't don't you think that's I just think it's so wild. Like, that statement, you're that you're in the dark when you're listening to yourself and you're in the light when you're speaking to yourself. Man, like, what a what a crazy thing to make sense of that we have these different like voices. You know what I mean? Like, I I think that that's I think it's so fascinating that we have cuz everybody knows it. You know what?

23:33 It's so interesting, man. So, my 6-year-old will say things to me like, "Man, I just had this this like this thing it this voice just came and told me that I should like and it and it's like it'll be bad things sometimes." She's like, "I I can't I have to do it." I'm like, "No, you don't." And I it's so weird to It's so interesting me that at six he feels the pull of like I I I can't remember how he taught he describes it, but like it's clearly like, you know, angel on one shoulder, devil on the other. And the way that he describes it at six I I'm actually really fascinated cuz my girls didn't do that. But, he's very in tune with like, "Oh, but this thing this voice just tells me to do this stuff." And I'm like, "Dude, like, you can control where you focus on." Like, it and at six, man. Well, like, self-talk, you know, they say all this stuff about self-talk. Like, self-talk happens at uh 800 to 1,400 words per minute. Ooh. Right? And And the reason why that is is cuz self-talk is not language. It's not It's like spoken words, we talk we talk at 100 to 150 words a minute.

24:31 Yeah. The reason why self-talk is happens so fast is cuz it's not language. It's It's uh it's this internal form of communication. Right? That's an interesting one, isn't it? Do you not Do you not ever like have thoughts in your head about like I I I guess I need to pay more attention to my own thoughts. Cuz I I was talking to somebody that I was one of my clients and she was she's younger and this and I was kind of tasked with mentoring her a bit. So, I was trying to talk, you know, I don't ever just go like, "Okay, here's the job." I'm always going to develop the person, right? So, I was talking to her about this and I was like, "Don't you ever like aren't you thinking things internally?" She's like, "I literally never think words internally." And I I like I was kind of fascinated by that. I said, "Do you not have that in Well, like a lot of people say, like I've heard I've heard people talk about how they don't um they don't have not not that they don't have an inner voice, but they don't have like an inner narrative. They don't have like the they don't have the ability to I've heard people say things like, "Well, I don't have the ability to have like like an imagination." Like if you tell them to imagine a pink elephant, they can't.

25:33 Jeez. And I I don't understand I don't understand the brain on that level. No. But the way the way you talk to yourself is not really talk, right? Right? And the problem with that is psychologists say that 75% of self-talk is negative. So, your self-talk your your normal default state your normal default conversation with yourself is negative. That's not good. And your So, so the language of self-talk is like meaning. So, like you'll experience something and then you'll say to yourself not through words, but you'll say to yourself, "Here's what this means." Yeah, for sure. when you get offended when a person gets offended about something, it's a it's a form of self-talk that you've you've told yourself you've experienced this. There's a story that's happening. There's some there's a there's events that are taking place and you now have all of this all of these feelings and all this stuff that's connected to this one event that no one maybe even said anything to you.

26:30 Right. But but people aren't aware of what that's going on. I think that that's really interesting because think that it's it's just So, you know, we and we I think we've talked about this on like other podcasts, but the what you understand is not the same as reality. Oh, yeah, 100%. Right? Like like you your life and what you say I said this on a recent podcast, but like what you say is always at the mercy of a person's level of understanding. Yeah. Your life is always at the mercy of of your level of understanding. That's why thinking is so important. And even like even for me with my kids, exposing them to a lot of different environments and and putting them in situations that expand their mindset and expand their their view of the world help them have better self-talk. Yeah. Because it gives you language and the ability to understand things at like a higher level at a broader level.

27:23 Right. You know, they say that about kids with like reading. You know, that when you get your kids So, what's hard for a lot of people is they don't have the vocabulary to describe their inner narrative. So, there's all these feelings and there's all this depth. They don't have the vocabulary, the ability to describe it, so then they feel stuck. Mhm. You know? So, the way you the way you change that is you increase your vocabulary. And I'm not just saying that in a in a sense of like, "Hey, go read a bunch of books or have your kids read a bunch of books." It's being you know, yeah, it's like you're saying it's being self-aware, but it's also being able to describe it Yeah. to yourself. And then for me I go, "Okay, well, why why is this happening?" And if I can't find a why, I don't really hang on a why a lot anyway. Right. Because my my goal is to fix the problem, not just identify So, like it's one thing to identify the root cause of the issue, it's another thing to solve the problem. Right? So, sometimes the cause is the you you can you know, if you have relationships with people who are negative about you and you think negatively about yourself and you surround yourself with people who Yeah.

28:31 you know, are not uplifting and encouraging, okay, well, solve the problem. Right. Right? But what what people tend to do that focus too much on why this is happening is they're trying to find something to blame. Right. And and figuring out blame doesn't really fix Like my dad did this or this person did this to me and this is why I am the way that I am. No, you're the way that you are cuz you've decided to be that way. Right. I don't think blame is ever the the answer. you spend too much time fixated on why, you blame. Thank you for listening to The Dialog. Make sure to like, share, and subscribe. And also, if you think someone else would enjoy this, please send it to them. If you want to get in touch or learn more about me, what I think, speak, and write, you can go to joshuacraft.com or you can also follow Nick and I on Instagram. Our handles are in the show notes.

29:22 We'll see you next time.